We chat to Steven Salvatore, author of the phenomenal upcoming YA novel Can’t Take That Away, which follows a genderqueer teen named Carey who, with the help of their friends, find the courage to stand up for equality and make their voice heard in more ways than just singing at the top of their lungs.
We chat to Steven about releasing their debut during a pandemic, tackling tough topics in literature and their favorite Mariah Carey songs!
Hi, Steven! Thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us! Why don’t you tell our readers a bit about yourself?
Hi, Mimi! Thank you so much! Let’s see, what can I say about chaotic ole me? I’m a gay, genderqueer witch who loves all things Mariah Carey and Star Wars, and I swear those two obsessions are not all that dissimilar. I’m an educator, and I’ve worked in higher education since 2011. I have a husband named Steve and everyone who meets us makes a joke about us sharing a name and honestly the jokes aren’t ever funny. I’m fairly introverted, though I have to put on the mask of an extrovert in my various professions, which sometimes create quite an interesting dichotomy when it comes to learning about other people’s perceptions of me, which I focus on probably way too much for my mental health.
Now, tell us about your debut Can’t Take That Away! What can readers expect from Carey’s story?
What I hope readers take away from Carey is resilience and strength. I know what it feels like to want to give up because the world seems against you – even if “the world” is one important (and I use that word liberally here) person or specific situation you’ve gotten wrapped up in, and Carey’s story is one of a series of people and situations that have forced (in ways both positive and negative) Carey to realize their potential. As a friend. As a singer/diva. As an activist. As someone worthy of all the love the world has to give. I hope readers can see all of the potential for love that exists, within themselves and from the people around them. Carey isn’t perfect, and they don’t have the answers, but that’s okay. It’s okay to find joy in the now.
One of my favorite moments in Can’t Take That Away occurs very early on where Carey’s English teacher Mr. Kelly gifts them differently colored bracelets to help Carey articulate their pronouns on any given day without having to state them. It’s such a thoughtful gift – how did you come up with that scene? Was it inspired by real life events?
Someone suggested bracelets to me when I was working through my own gender identity, and I got myself a genderqueer pride bracelet. I know it might sound silly, but when I put it on, it felt like I was a superhero in a cape. Like all the power that was inside was now (very quietly) on the outside. It wasn’t some big declaration or anything, but it was something that 30-year-old me never knew I needed until I had it. And I was already working on Carey’s story, so it became something I was able to seamlessly weave in, especially because I knew that I needed a new beginning and a way for the story to incorporate Carey’s shifting pronouns without Carey actually having to declare it every chapter themselves; just like in real life, it’s utterly exhausting to have to tell people your pronouns, so I knew it could be a way to establish their pronouns without ever having to have it take up space in the actual story because Carey is way more than just their pronouns, even though they are important.
And on the topic of gender queerness – I fell in love with Carey’s story from the first page and I think that Can’t Take That Away can become such a classic staple in YA literature with the way it approaches gender identity and explores Carey’s own understanding of what it means to be genderqueer in a society (and their case, school) that doesn’t always accept them? How challenging was it to get Carey’s “voice” just right?
While I was writing it, it wasn’t challenging at all because I was writing my own exploration of genderqueerness on the page. But once I was querying it, and then once my agent sent it out on submission and it sold, it suddenly became this anxiety-inducing thing that hung over me because there are so few genderqueer main characters/first-person narrators. There are a few non-binary main characters and a few more trans characters, but not nearly enough to even compare notes. So in that way, it was EXTREMELY CHALLENGING in that I felt the weight of Carey’s story and getting it right. Through conversations with other queer writers I realized that Carey’s story is NOT and can not be the definitive genderqueer experience. And I would never want that because there’s no one right or wrong genderqueer experience. Carey’s story will not be everyone’s story. There will be genderqueer, non-binary, gender non-conforming, and trans readers who read Carey’s story and think “This doesn’t sound like me.” And that’s totally okay because Carey’s story is one of an infinite number of stories waiting to be told. And it’s one that deserves to be told, I think.
Obviously, musicals play a huge part in this novel – what are your top three musicals? And if you had the chance to perform any of them in front of a giant audience, what would be your go-to choice?
Oh, you would NOT want me to perform anything. It wouldn’t be pretty. I’m highly uncoordinated and my singing voice is non-existent, which is a shame because I used to dream of being a famous singer. I can lip sync, assuming it’s something divalicious by Idina Menzel. That said, I would totally perform “The Sparkling Diamond” number from Moulin Rouge (the Nicole Kidman film) and everyone would just have to deal with my bad voice.
My top three musicals would have to be Wicked (obviously!), Hedwig and the Angry Inch, and Disney’s Beauty and the Beast because it was the first musical I ever saw on Broadway when I was a wee child and I really thought it was pure, real magic when the Beast transformed on stage, and it forever changed me.
Speaking of things that play a huge role – Mariah Carey, the queen herself! Did your own love for Mariah shape Carey’s story? Who are the artists that have inspired you?
I’ve been a lamb (that’s what she calls her fans – a term she’s used decades before it was “cool” for singers to name their fans) since 1992; I was six years old and heard “Emotions” on the radio in the car with my aunt. I just remember being in awe of her voice. But it wasn’t until the Music Box album in 1994 that I actually owned a Mariah Carey album. I wore it out on my Walkman! I would buy all the CD singles, posters, anything I could get my hands on. I even made a Mariah scrapbook with sketches of the Queen in it. She writes all of her own songs and her lyrics are expert-level poetry (favorite songs include the lyrical masterpieces “Close My Eyes,” and “The Roof.”) She is so hands-on with the making of her music, and she’s a powerhouse. She’s a larger-than-life persona who gives zero you-now-whats. She’s forever my main inspiration, and her story breathed life into Carey Parker’s.
As far as other artists, all the divas, obviously. Lady Gaga does something magical to my soul! Queen has definitely shaped me, too; Freddie Mercury was an icon, and he played with gender in ways that challenged people. Adam Lambert as well. I remember watching him on American Idol and how his voice slayed my soul. That was the year before I came out publicly as gay, and he really allowed me to be comfortable with myself. Sam Smith, my own genderqueer icon, is also a huge inspiration just because he’s so unabashedly queer. Also, there’s a relatively unknown artist named Eddy Lee Ryder who I’ve gotten the chance to see grow and gotten a front row seat to her song writing sessions in person, and being in the presence of great creativity at any level is always so inspiring. She’s got this Stevie Nicks quality to her voice and I can’t wait to see her blow up!
You address a lot of difficult topics with such a tender hand in this novel – from Alzheimer’s disease to bullying and the systemic discrimination of gender identities. What was the hardest scene to write or get right? And how did you power through?
I don’t want to spoil anything, but the scenes with Carey’s grandmother were the hardest to write. They were all based on my own experience with my grandmother, who was basically my best friend. She passed away in 2016 of Alzheimer’s, and to have to relive her experience still makes me cry.
One of the driving themes of CTTA is that the world may be cruel sometimes, but that you can help change it every day with small actions that will inspire others to do the same. What do you think is something everyone can do each day to make the world a better place?
Speak up. Everyone has the power to make change in small ways, and everyone has the ability to take part in making change. Sometimes that’s leading revolutions, but not everyone is cut out for that role, and that’s totally okay! It can be something small, but powerful like taking a stand when someone in your family says something racist or queerphobic, etc. Educating yourself on systemic discrimination and the white patriarchal power structures that oppress marginalized communities is incredibly important. That starts with you; you can’t ever expect someone to educate you. Taking the initiative to learn about the ways in which white supremacy and heteronormativity (particularly the intersection of both) perpetuate toxic behaviours in our everyday lives is crucial to unlearning the destructive mentalities that keep marginalized communities oppressed.
Beyond that, which is paramount, change could also be something as simple as seeing the kid who always eats lunch alone and going over to sit with them. There’s an age-old icebreaker question that I’ve used in the classroom with my students on the first day to learn a bit about them: “If you could have dinner with any one person living or dead, who would it be?” My answer used to be Mariah Carey—cue shock and laughter— but as I’ve gotten older and reflected on what I would have wanted as a teen, it’s changed to this: “I would have lunch with the person who feels most alone in the world and needs a friend.” Compassion can really make a world of difference.
It’s certainly been a tough time for debut authors. How have you been dealing with the pandemic? Has it changed your writing routine and do you have any tips for writers who are trying to get some words on the page but feel discouraged by the state of everything?
Truthfully, I’m a complete disaster. My routine is all over the place. I used to be able to shut everything out, and just write, and even four months into the pandemic I could still manage that when I needed to carve out writing time. But now? Almost a year into quarantine, I’m feeling way too unbalanced and chaotic. It’s really hard to concentrate right now. The best advice I can give is to do what you can. Writing is not a race. If you can write two words, consider that a win! Be easy on yourself. You got this. Now, if I can only take my own advice …
With Can’t Take That Away publishing soon, are you already working on a new project? If so, can you share a bit about it with us?
I’m working a few projects. I have a dual POV contemporary YA that I finished in 2019 that I hope will get a shot at publication at some point. I’m also revising a queer sci-fi project for my agent and writing an adult throuple book. It’s really hard to concentrate these days, but I’m trying.
My second book, which publishes from Bloomsbury YA on March 1, 2022, is called AND THEY LIVED…. It’s a sex-positive fairytale-inspired celebration of queer, first love and self-acceptance. It follows Chase Arthur, a budding animator and hopeless romantic obsessed with Disney love stories, who begins his freshman year at a competitive arts college, he struggles with body image issues, gender identity, and his ex-best friend-turned rival, Leila. But when he falls for Jack Reid, a brooding poet still discovering his sexual identity, Chase will have to get creative to find his own happily ever after. AND THEY LIVED… is for fans of Kacen Callender’s FELIX EVER AFTER, Becky Albertalli & Adam Silvera’s WHAT IF IT’S US, & Casey McQuiston’s RED, WHITE & ROYAL BLUE.
Last but not least, do you have any bookish recommendations for our readers?
SO MANY! But I’m going to have to go with the last five books I’ve read because honestly, they’re all so phenomenal:
- Aiden Thomas’ CEMETARY BOYS
- Jason June’s JAY’S GAY AGENDA (out June 1, 2021)
- Ryan La Sala’s BE DAZZLED
- Jessica Verdi’s FOLLOW YOUR ARROW (out March 2, 2021)
- Nicolas DiDomizio’s BURN IT ALL DOWN (out May 25, 2021)
