Debut author Shelley Parker-Chan is here to talk about her very first, yet incredibly exceptional novel She Who Became the Sun. Often compared to Mulan and The Song of Achilles, She Who Became the Sun is first and foremost a historical fantasy that explores the limits of desire, going against predetermined futures, and gender identity. In this interview, we explore with the author some of these topics, as well as some aspects of Parker-Chan’s own experience as a writer.
Hi, Shelley! Could you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Hello, and thanks for having me! I spent my errant 20s in one of those poorly-understood expat jobs that led people at parties to ask, “so, are you really a spy?” to which I’m like: have you met me? I have the social skills of a potato. I deal terribly with excitement and adventure in real life. I far prefer sitting comfortably at home in the ‘World’s Most Liveable City’ (that would be Melbourne, Australia), and putting fictional characters through the wringer.
When did you first realise that you wanted to be a writer?
I always wanted to be a writer! I was writing terrible stories and flinging them onto the internet from my teens onwards. I used to be like: I’m going to write Literature and get a Pulitzer Prize one day. I was so dumb I didn’t even realise you have to be American to be eligible for a Pulitzer. But my parents were pretty adamant that being an English major wasn’t something that would lead to, you know, being able to feed myself. So I did other things for a while. And now I’m older and wiser, and I’ve had the epiphany that you may as well write what brings you joy. A commercial romance or fantasy novel may never win a Pulitzer, but you can say as much about the world with one as you can with capital-L Literature.
Which authors did you look up to before beginning to write? Do you feel like their works have influenced your own writing?
I love beautiful prose that’s a reason to read, in its own right. I love descriptions. When I read, I want to travel to another reality. So when I was just starting to write, I was probably following classic travel writing: Wilfred Thesiger, Jonathan Raban, HV Morton. And these days I’m in awe of the great nature stylists: Helen Macdonald, Robert Macfarlane, Olivia Laing. But in terms of storytelling, I’m probably most influenced by fantasy authors like Naomi Novik, CS Pacat, Sarah Rees Brennan, and Holly Black. Their books are this perfect blend of action-adventure and emotional catharsis.
If you could describe She Who Became the Sun using just three emotions, which ones would they be?
Oh, I only need one: shame. This book is all about shame: those whose lives are driven by it, and those who refuse it. Move over, Brené Brown. We Asians know shame.
If you could talk to every reader who picks up your novel, what would you tell them? And what do you hope readers get from your novel?
I’d say: don’t learn history from this book. Seriously, don’t: I’ve taken every liberty imaginable. And it’s not a mainland Chinese TV drama of the kind you’ll see on Netflix. It’s an eastern-western mashup, in terms of both style and themes, and that’s how I intended it. I wanted to write something fun, and escapist, that was also about how what the world views as a weakness can be a strength. But apart from that: I feel like a novel needs to stand on its own. Not every reader vibes with every book, which is the natural way of the world. No amount of me telling people how they should feel about it is going to make them actually feel that.
She Who Became the Sun is a novel that toes the line between history and fiction, as it is based on the Red Turban Rebellion that took place between 1351 and 1368. What approach did you take to find that perfect balance between reality and imagination? And what was the hardest part about the process?
When it comes to history vs fiction, I think you have to be clear at the outset what kind of story you’re telling. I was never telling a story about those specific historical events. I wanted to tell a story about individuals within a system that denies them aspects of their personhood— whether that be their sexuality, or their gender, or even their right to life. It’s a story about contemporary identity, and the history is just a frame. So with that in mind, I never had any compunctions about changing what I needed to change to best serve the themes. I turned one historical figure into two characters who each exemplified one aspect of the original. I created a major character out of nothing, because I needed a specific kind of foil for my protagonist. I compressed the timeline so that plot events tracked at the same pace as the character arcs and relationships. That wasn’t so hard. The truly challenging part was creating characters who were strong enough, epic enough, to be worthy of the world-changing events they were inciting. I’m always a bit ‘meh’ about Chosen One stories where you have to work hard to suspend your disbelief about some pissy teenager’s ability to save the world. (Yes, Luke Skywalker, I’m looking at you.) It was hard coming up with a characterisation for Zhu that was both plausible as a world-conqueror, and likeable. Relatively speaking.
Desire and wanting are some of the central topics of She Who Became the Sun. Why do you feel it is important to acknowledge these feelings?
There’s so much misery in the world because of people being told, don’t want what you want. It’s part of the human condition to want. I’m not just talking sexual desire, but any kind of desire. The desire to be, or do, or have, or to experience. You can’t cut it out of people. You can tell them not to want something, you can even get them to believe it, but that desire is still going to be there on some level. Relegate it to the subconscious, but it’ll come out in all sorts of other ways that will be detrimental to everyone involved. The characters in She Who Became the Sun are constantly being told they shouldn’t want this or that. Even Zhu Yuanzhang, who says, “well, fuck that” and goes and pursues her wants anyway, does it in the most ruinous way because of how the world is set against her. As a society, we really need to stop with the endless moralising and just let people want what they want. What are we all so goddamn afraid of?
If you had to recommend a book that matches the personalities of your main characters, which ones would they be?
For Zhu Yuanzhang and her unquenchable drive for greatness: Mary Renault’s classic Fire From Heaven, which covers the early rise of Alexander the Great. For General Ouyang’s destructive self-hate: H is for Hawk by Helen Macdonald, specifically the parts about the sad, cruel, closeted life of TH White.
Finally, what’s in store for you in the future?
Before the pandemic, I used to answer this question by saying, “I want to level up! I want to do a Madeline Miller, and write the Circe to my The Song of Achilles.” Ha! The hubris. As for many writers I know, 2020 crushed the creativity out of me. Now I just want to write something—anything. What I know for sure is that I’m done with imperial China. Maybe I’ll write a romance for a change of pace. Maybe it will even have a happy ending.
