The Nerd Daily recently had the chance to talk to Nancy Werlin, Edgar award winner and NYT bestselling author of numerous novels such as the suspense thriller The Killer’s Cousin, And Then There Were Four, and her upcoming contemporary comedy Zoe Rosenthal Is Not Lawful Good. We got to ask Nancy all our questions about her writing process, alignments and love for fandoms!
Hi, Nancy! Thank you for taking the time to chat with us! Why don’t you tell our readers a bit about yourself?
Hello, Nerd Daily! Talking to you fulfils a lifetime’s ambition, even though you did not exist back when I was a wee nerd on the swing-set, complaining: “Daddy! You’re pushing me on the diagonal!”
My dad was a computer programmer back when the job title was “Electrical Engineer,” and (may I brag on him) he was a young participant on the team that built Whirlwind I. He begged me to become a programmer, but I needed to major in English so that I could spend as much time as possible reading. I wanted to be a writer, which terrified him. But then in my senior year of college, I panicked about earning my living, took a couple of programming courses, and bluffed my way into a summer job teaching BASIC programming to kids. This led to gainful employment upon graduation as a software technical writer.
I will never forget how my dad’s shoulders relaxed in relief, six months into that first job, when I told him I’d just been given a raise.
I’m a tech writer to this day. I find it the perfect companion to the ups and downs of writing fiction. I like a regular paycheck. Caution is my watchword! Except when I can’t avoid risk. Then—and it still surprises me that this is so—I’ll jump rather than be pushed.
Now onto Zoe Rosenthal Is Not Lawful Good! What can readers expect?
So, 18-year old Zoe (“Planning is my superpower”) Rosenthal sneaks off to Dragon Con, lying her head off about it, because she has to see the second season premiere of her TV show, Bleeders. (Which I think of as a feminist cross between Firefly and M*A*S*H.) She’ll be gone less than 24 hours. No one will know! Only then, she meets some other fans.
Zoe and her new friends Sebastian, Liv, Cam, Meldel, and Todd go to more cons together. They geek out about Bleeders, which they want to save from cancellation. They cosplay the characters and lobby for the show. They eat Twizzlers. They play Cards Against Humanity. They go to a panel about Princess Leia. They talk about college plans, and politics, and the future, and their worries and hopes and dreams. The gap between Zoe’s fandom life and her real life widens, or maybe it closes. Trouble looms, or maybe something else.
Initially, I just wanted to write about what I think is one of the best parts of life: hanging out with your friends, talking.
Fandom plays a huge role in this novel: what fandoms are you in?
My most passionate fandoms involve books. Here are some current authors whose fictions I love: Lois McMaster Bujold, Naomi Novik, Nisi Shawl, Ilona Andrews, Laini Taylor, Holly Black, Ann Patchett, Donna Tartt, and Laurie R. King. I have to mention Terry Pratchett and Dorothy Dunnett and Charles Dickens, who are no longer with us.
Moving to other media. I’m a fan of character-driven ensemble drama: put a bunch of interesting people together and let’s see what they do. But if the characters are forced to do things that are not in their nature, then I am OUT. And I’m sorry to say that I don’t forgive.
I am more Star Trek than Star Wars—though my dad took me to see The Empire Strikes Back when I was 21 and we were waiting to see if I’d get that first tech writing job offer. That remains my very favorite Star Wars movie. I like middles, I notice. The journey, more than the outcome.
Oh, Veronica Mars! LOVE. But . . . that last belated season. Speaking of not forgiving.
I’m currently obsessed with “Call My Agent” on Netflix. (See the footnote.)
Speaking of fandom, you discuss the love and the power of it by having Zoe and her friends trying everything in their power to save their favorite tv show. Did/Do you have a show you would go to great lengths to keep on the air? Bonus question: did you know whether they would succeed or fail while you were writing the novel (no spoilers, obviously)?
Star Trek is the one for me; it has a deep grip on my soul. But since the original series hooked me in reruns back when I was a kid, I never conceived of having anybody having the power to make it continue. Yet that show has lived and lived and lived, and changed with the times. And fans did it before they knew they could.
We understand now that fans participate in the creation of a show by loving it, by discussing it—by hating it sometimes, too. A show is a living organism. Its growth is maybe not always beautiful, and it can go wrong—a separate discussion—and of course, tastes differ. But I think it’s important, and emotionally healthy, that a group can join a beloved fictional reality together. That was what I was trying to get at in this book, I think. Or one of the things.
The bonus question: Did I know in advance whether Zoe and her friends would succeed in keeping Bleeders on the air? No; the answer to that worked out in the course of writing . . . and as I came, too, to love Bleeders and worry for its future.
Your novel discusses the nine alignments and I absolutely loved how it was incorporated into Zoe’s coming of age story. Where do you see yourself on the alignment scale?
I operate in the Lawful Neutral space: “Acts as law, tradition, or some personal code directs.”
However, if you were to consider this toilet paper alignment chart, I have at various times occupied every single alignment including (in a desperate moment) chaotic evil. Sometimes you have no choice but to turn to the Dark Side. No?
Zoe has quite the unusual job including a very uncooperative cat. What inspired Zoe’s profession and her secret plan to launch a coup and get another, more charming cat to pose for photos?
Haha! Thank you for asking this one!
So I’m working on the first chapter, and Zoe is on the plane to Atlanta for Dragon Con, and she just wanted to look at cat videos instead of writing a college essay. Which is something that, personally, I have never ever done. I let her look, and I am on the writerly moral high ground here, because as I said earlier, one does not force characters to act against their nature.
Then I realized that obviously, Zoe needed a job so that she’d have enough money to sneak off to all these cons. From there, Mrs. Albee’s Organic Kitty Soaps and Wentworth, the Spokescat from Hell, and Zoe’s job as social media manager, shimmered into existence on the page.
Then Zoe obviously had to do what she would do.
Sebastian, one of the people Zoe meets at her first con, was an absolute show stealer for me! What was your favorite scene to write that involved him?
Must I pick only one? Okay: when Sebastian and Zoe are prepping his Bleeder cosplay at Lilithcon, and Sebastian just can’t shut up about Squirrel Girl.
I adored writing everything to do with Sebastian’s cosplay—failed attempt after failed attempt. And also everything to do with him and Squirrel Girl. And also, yes, when we first meet him and he tenderly shows Zoe his signed picture of Frank Oz.
I love Sebastian. Thank you for noticing him.
You’ve written numerous novels. What has gotten easier about the writing/publishing process over time and what challenges do you still face?
I trust myself as an artist more. I understand that I have to please myself before fretting about pleasing others, and that my prime directive is give myself a happy creative life. So now I won’t sell a novel in progress. I want to write a whole book to my own vision, without interference and without deadlines. (Having a regular job gives me the freedom to do this. Thanks, Dad.)
Business and publishing stuff can worry me. It’s the same for all writers, I think. “What about that reviewer who hated my book and whose cruel words smashed my heart? Will my publisher and editor love me? Or leave me? How about my backlist books, which I am now self-publishing—there’s so much to learn, ack! Will my new work even be noticed now? What about social media?”
But when I go down that rabbit hole, now I know to claw my way back to the prime directive.
For me also, having a happy writing life includes that thing that Zoe ends up finding so important and soul-filling: A supportive community of friends.
With Zoe Rosenthal Is Not Lawful Good releasing soon, are you already working on other projects? If so, can you share a sneak peek with us?
Yes! My next book is in production at Candlewick Press. It’s a middle-grade historical fantasy set in 16th century France.
I first drafted this story over 20 years ago. My editor at the time wasn’t interested in it and I put it aside. Then, during Covid lockdown in spring 2020, when I could not find the heart to write anything new, I read it again. I loved it still.
Working on this book has been like regaining a lost piece of myself.
Last but not least, do you have any bookish recommendations for our readers?
I talked about my author fandoms earlier, and to that let me add some specific titles that I’ve recently enjoyed: Tooth and Claw by Jo Walton, Dark and Deepest Red by Anna-Marie McLemore, and Sorcerer to the Crown by Zen Cho. For realistic fiction, American Spy by Lauren Wilkinson and Brick Lane by Monica Ali.
Middle-grade fantasy fans, please look out for these new books this spring: Thornwood by Leah Cypess, River Magic by Ellen Booraem, and Nightingale by Deva Fagan. Leah, Ellen, Deva and I are doing a few book release gigs together, on fantasy and fandom. Speaking of community.
FOOTNOTE QUESTION from Nancy for any other fans of Call My Agent (Dix pour cent) on Netflix: If you had to pick an agent from ASK to represent you, who would it be and why?
My answer: Initially I picked Gabriel because of his passion for art, respect for artists, and his kindness. Only now, halfway through Season 3, I’m feeling like taking a flyer on Hervé who I think is going to be fantastic.
